Rays of Light Podcast

Hi Karisha,

Hi Makiko.

Thank you for joining us in Sunnyside.

If you're a returning listener, we're delighted to have you back. If you're new, welcome.

Each episode of Rays of Light stands on its own, so you can choose an episode by the topic or you can start at the beginning and see how the characters relate and develop over time.

Gabriella and Gwen are drinking coffee at a table in the corner of the Minions of the Moon Café.

“Will you please tell me what you really want to tell me but also don’t want to tell me?” Gwen asks. “I’m getting nervous that something's wrong with you and Ben.”

[sighs] “It's not that. It's just . . ." Gabriella stares at her empty mug. “Everything feels out of control right now.”

There's a long silence, then Gwen says, you're the most in control person I've ever met.

After a pause, she adds, “Sorry, didn't mean to argue. It's just… if you're feeling out of control…”

“I can barely get myself out of bed in the morning,” Gabriella says.

“It was almost 5:20 before I got going today and I had to cut my run short. But the worst thing is that I was relieved to stop.”

Gwen tries not to smile and fails. “I'm taking this seriously, I promise, but not be able to get up at 5 a.m. and run hard for an hour…”

“I normally love it,” Gabriella interrupts. “I do it because it feels wonderful being outside that early, pushing myself, starting the day with a big accomplishment. Or it did. Now my muscles are so weak, I feel wrecked after.”

“I'm sorry,” Gwen says. “Do you have any idea what's going on?”

“Perimenopause.” “Ah,” Gwen says. “We just called the whole process menopause back when I went through it. What symptoms do you have?”

“The worst is a brain fog. I was worried about dementia until I read brain fog's very common with surging hormones. I'm irritable about small things. I have mood swings. My face changes throughout the day.”

“What?”

“No, seriously. Sags and indents and lines and drooping. I look ancient. Then I'm back to normal and it's a huge relief. And then my whole face shifts again. I never know what it will look like. I guess at its worst it's predicting my postmenopausal appearance. Everyone's going to think Jacob and Anna are my grandkids and Ben's my son.” Gwen giggles.

“I'm serious. Ben's six years younger than me, which was nothing until now. And you know Jacob was born when I was 42, Anna when I was 44.”

“That's because you're forever young, no matter what you say.”

“Gwen, lately I work so hard to function at half the level I did before. I can't remember words, dates, names, faces, events. It takes hours for me to solve a problem I could have tackled in moments a few years ago. My doctor asked when my mom went through menopause. I had no idea. So I called her after my appointment. I dread asking my mom about things like this because she loves to talk about them and I do not. But I did it because I hope for a clue to my own experience. And she apparently sang a song to her body every month during her time of transition. And she's emailing me the lyrics as we speak.”

Gwen laughs then says, “You're kidding.”

“Well, yes,” Gabrielle admits. But I wouldn't have been surprised. So my mom was 50 something when her period stopped. I don't want to deal with this for that long. I feel like nature's trying to kill me.”

“What about a hormonal supplement?”

“They don't like to start at this early. Not enough proper studies have been done. Women were barely invented, you know?”

“Well, obviously,” Gwen says. “But at least your doctor gets the basic idea. I have a friend, you know, the one I told you about who runs marathons and does the Ironman and all those crazy things. She was having serious nerve pain and weakness. Had to stop competing. They tested her for a lot of things. And when all the tests came back negative, she asked her doctor if it could be due to menopause. And her doctor said, no, definitely not. But guess what? Another doctor said it was an uncommon but well-known symptom.”

“How's she doing?” Gabrielle asks.

“I'd love any advice she has.”

“She must be doing pretty well since she recently beat her bicycling time in some race or the other. She's been back competing for a while now.”

“That's helpful to hear,” Gabrielle says.

“I'll find out everything there is to know and we'll get you back on track, Gwen says enthusiastically. Hey, you should see my hypnotherapist.”

“Have I mentioned I'm a control freak?”

“Didn't you say you felt out of control? He can help with that.”

“I'd rather talk to a woman.”

“I'm sure he's heard it all. He's so wonderful. But you know, I got his name through Rain Ibarra, who was really sweet.”

“Why don't you go to her?”

“I'm dreaming of a romantic entanglement with one of her clients. Don't ask. I don't want any interference.”

“I would never.”

M: So one thing we hear a lot is this idea that you lose control in hypnosis, and that probably comes from stage shows, you know?

K: Yeah, and even in stage shows, like it looks like you're losing control, but they specifically choose people that want to do it. They want to perform. They're super suggestible. Stage hypnotists are good at being able to tell who in the audience is going to really enjoy themselves. They're also not making them do anything that they wouldn't be willing to do.

M: But in real hypnotherapy, you never lose control. We, the hypnotherapists, are simply guiding you toward the outcome that you want. We can hypnotize you only with your permission. And we literally say that in the induction, you know, that we can only hypnotize you only with your permission. And in fact, you can always come out of hypnosis anytime you choose. That said, most people do find the state very relaxing, that when we actually begin the count up at the end to bring you out of hypnosis, they often wish they could stay there a bit longer. I mean, at least I do. And during hypnosis, all we do is offer the suggestions that you've already chosen and discuss with us earlier in the session.

Two days later, Gwen texts Gabriella that her athlete friend said a book called “Next Level” by Stacey T. Sims was the only thing that really helped her during perimenopause. Since every website she's looked at has had very similar and very sparse information, Gabriella orders the book. In response to her thanks, Gwen adds, “She wanted me to emphasize that everyone's experience is very different and that the book has a range of ideas.”

“A range of ideas,” Gabriella mutters to herself. That sounds better than what she's gotten from her internet searches, which tend to repeat the same spotty information while advertising a supplement or program. Gabriella has a work interruption that abbreviates her consultation call with Reina, and during the first session, they focus on bringing down Gabriella's anxiety and setting up a foundation for future sessions. At the beginning of her second session, Gabriella mentions that she can't remember what she told Reina during the consultation call.

“It's the brain fog,” she explains. “I'm making some lifestyle changes I got from a book a friend recommended, trying some adaptogens, other supplements, adjusting my workouts, nutrition. Some things seem to help at first, and then it all changes again. I want to work on feeling more hopeful about the process and the future and more in control. I feel, I feel kind of like, like I'm an opera being performed backwards on a roller coaster, if that makes sense.”

Reina says, “I love that. It's very vivid. So the opera is being performed backwards. What does that mean to you?

“It's nonsensical,” Gabriella says. “Operas are already full of drama and spectacle. And there's a reason beginnings are beginnings and endings are endings. And what does the beginning at the end look like and feel like anyway?”

Reina laughs. “But what part of the process does the backwards opera represent?”

“All the changes.”

“And the roller coaster?”

“Hurtling toward death in a ridiculous manner. The last time I went on a roller coaster, I hated it. As a teenager, I loved them, by the way. But the last time, in my 30s, I was thinking, this is such a stupid thing to choose to do. And afterward, the group I was with found ourselves in one of those real-time photos taking on the first downward rush.

And the others were screaming with glee. Well, I just look so deeply disgusted.”

“Did you buy the photo?”

“No.”

“We did get a laugh out of it, though.”

Reina asks, “Do you know any women who've been through menopause?”

“Yes, of course. A lot, I'm sure.”

“Any that have mentioned it, even in passing?”

“Yes.”

“What are they like?”

“Very intelligent, energetic. At least the three that come to mind right off. And yes, I see that's a good sign. I feel bad saying this, but they look their age, you know? They have wrinkles and lines. And sure, they're in their 60s and 70s. I'm not saying I... Okay. I don't ever want to age. But right now, it's more about... I don't know.”

M: In the previous episodes, we talked about different types of people. Those who are more relationship-centered and those who are more mind-centered. And people who are more mind-centered tend to be very sensitive to their sense of control or the lack of it.

And that can bring up a strong reaction around not wanting to age. For some people, the anxiety around aging can feel even more intense than the fear of death itself. So physiological changes like wrinkles, you know, changes in strength or other signs of aging can actually trigger entirely new anxiety that maybe they've never felt before.

K: And unfortunately, even people who are relationship-centered also have issues. Of course. But yeah, because we all have both of each. But yeah, it can be even more harder and more surprising, perhaps, for people that tend to be the more mind-centered.

M: Right. Maybe, you know, more sensitive to it. Or, you know, even like the sense of control. I mean, it's not that it's only the mind-centered people, you know, are afraid of losing control. I mean, nobody likes losing control. It's just, you know, how sensitive it is or how important it is to them, you know.

K: Right. Exactly.

“What might make you feel more in control?”

“If I accept the unpredictability, I guess. Like that saying about how the most flexible person controls every situation.”

“So if you were accepting the brain fog, say, how might that play out?”

“Um, I could take the time to think things through when I need to. Make notes to keep myself focused. Can we also promote clarity and me feeling the best I can?”

“Yes, we can. Our thoughts around what's happening have a lot of influence. So when you feel like you're not thinking as quickly as you used to, for example, a lot of worries might come up.”

“They do.” Gabriella agrees. “Like, I don't have time for this. How can I do my job? This is so embarrassing. What will people think?”

Reina nods. “Right. So the problem isn't just the problem. It's the thoughts around it. And if these thoughts are negative, they're probably amplifying it. Can you remember a moment at work where you felt like brain fog was an issue?”

“Yes.”

“If you focus on your body, see if you can notice where that feeling is.”

Gabriella shifts uncomfortably. “What do you mean?”

“So the feeling that comes up, how might you describe it?”

“Frustrating, embarrassing.”

“And if you think about the frustration, where might you feel it?”

“Um, in my head, I guess.”

“Great. Anywhere else?”

“No.”

“Anything else you notice about it?”

After a moment, Gabriella says, “I've always felt like my body was under my charge, if that makes sense. I don't know. But now I feel like it's betrayed me. Like, I can't trust it.”

“Okay. So take a moment to notice where your feet are right now. Notice what they're touching, their temperature.”

Gabriella nods.

“Good. And your hand on the armrest. Maybe lift and lower it, taking in the change in the sensation on your hand. Good. So what's your breath doing right now?”

“Um, going in my nose, out my nose, in my stomach and chest, like that.”

“Yes, good.”

M: Some people are naturally very connected to their bodies, and others are less connected. And what I mean is, like, feeling the emotion in certain parts of body. And I personally don't see anything wrong with that, you know, whether you are connected or less connected. Because to a certain extent, people are simply wired differently.

And those who are more mind-centered tend to be, not always, but tend to be less connected to their bodies because their emotions feel deeply personal. And they don't want them to be too exposed, like protecting emotions. And so it's perfectly okay to say that, you don't feel your emotion anywhere in the body.

And for example, in spoken imagery that sometimes we use, where the therapist asks what the client is experiencing in the journey or in the imagery, mind-centered clients might say things like, “I'm feeling emotional.” And, without naming any specific emotions, but that doesn't mean the experience is vague or artificial. It can actually be very deep and intense. It's just that those feelings are often so personal that they're either just not expressed or hard to put into words.

So just because someone can't label their emotions or where they feel them doesn't mean they aren't experiencing them deeply.

K: Which is also an important thing to keep in mind in relationships. You know, if you're in a relationship with someone, they could sometimes seem cold and, you know, shut down. And even knowing they're feeling them deeply, it can still be hard if they don't express them. But sometimes just understanding where it's coming from. It's not that they're not feeling emotions. It's just that those emotions are so intense for them that they are, like Makiko said, protecting them.

M: Right. Absolutely. But in the case of, you know, disconnection coming from trauma or if it's really affecting the day-to-day life, then that would be an entirely different story. So it might be something to explore with a trauma specialist or a therapist. Now, on a personal note, I know for myself, I really don't do too well with those exercises that are very much in the body. And so, again, it really depends on the person. And you can always tell, communicate that to your therapist. They will respect your preference and how you feel or not feel.

K: I believe that the most deep, like significant, permanent changes require some level of connection with the body. So that's always something I work on with clients to whatever extent seems best. With someone like Gabriella, seems to be so far, that would be a very slow process, not starting until after we'd had a few sessions.

Reina says, “So that backwards opera on a roller coaster, what would you like to be different about the performance? Or maybe about where it's taking place?”

“Well, it's madness, which I don't need. I'm not sure what you mean by different.”

“Is there any way the opera could change to make it less stressful or anywhere else it could be performed?”

“Maybe. The performance could change to a more gentle, a gentle kind of dance, like a ballet with just one dancer. And not on a roller coaster, like on a lawn or in a meadow.”

“That's great. How do you feel thinking about that instead?”

“Calmer.”

“What happens in your body to tell you you're calm?”

“I don't know. It's more like my head's telling me.”

“Okay, great. So that beautiful image connects with a feeling of calmness. We'll develop it more in hypnosis and give you a way to connect with it whenever you'd like during the day. And if you listen to the recording, that will reinforce it.”

At the office the next day, one of Gabriella's colleagues asked her to explain a process in the new work management system. For a moment, as she stares at her coworker's screen, nothing makes sense. And Gabriella feels the sluggishness of her brain in contrast to the quickness of the rest of the world.

Then she remembers that she's explained this to the same colleague more than once before. So is it really her who has a problem? She almost smiles at this and reminds herself to take a mental step back, breathing in calmness and releasing urgency. The numbers on the screen start to make sense. “Okay, Chad,” she says. “This time, take notes.”

At our next session, Gabriella asks for help feeling more in control.

“Am I contradicting myself?” She asks. “I want to be flexible and accepting and also feel in control.”

“In a previous session,” Reina says, “you mentioned that accepting the unpredictability might help you feel more in control.”

“Oh, right. Let me think.” After a moment, Gabriella says, “I don't know if that works for me as much now. I guess it's more like my real self is no longer in charge. So I don't even know who I am anymore. Does that make sense?”

“It does. So how might you describe your real self?”

“Confident, quick thinking, quick acting, decisive, energetic.”

“Those are wonderful. Anything else?”

“Focused, driven. I think that's it.”

“Excellent. Okay, so let's do some hypnosis and get you back to feeling like your real self.”

A few weeks and several sessions later, Gabriella's husband Ben jokes that he planned to do sessions with Reina and now he can't.

“You can go see Luke. Gwen really admires him.”

Ben gives her a hug. “I'm glad you're feeling better. You are feeling better, right?”

Four-year-old Jacob runs over to join in the hug.

“It's more like this whole process of perimenopause seems more manageable. I still get frustrated about it, but I'm able to bring myself back to a better place. I might try to work on some other aspects of the hormonal fluctuations, and I've been making a list of some different issues too.”

“Does your list include how cute I am?” Ben asks.

“No!” Jacob yells.

“Does it include how cute Jacob is?” Ben asks.

“That's on my happy list.” Gabriella says.