Rays of Light Podcast

Hi Karisha,

Hi Makiko.

Welcome to Rays of Light and the fictional village of Sunnyside.

If you'd like to contact us with questions or comments, please do so.

We'll include a link in the show notes.

“You're going to Hawaii with him?” Ben asks.

“We can't discuss this here.” Gabriella says, her calmness infuriating him. That she's correct only increases his frustration. He doesn't want to risk disturbing their children's peace of mind.

He and his wife try to have their contentious discussions during a quick nighttime walk around the block, which keeps arguments outside the home and provides a time limit, something they adopted from Ben's parents. Unlike his parents, they have their kids on monitors they can view on their phones. And during their walks, they make sure four-year-old Jacob hasn't gotten out of bed and 18-month-old Anna is still asleep.

Outside the house, Gabriella moves briskly to the road before saying, “I'm not going to Hawaii with him. I'm going to the same conference my entire department attends every year. And as you know, this year I'm the keynote speaker.”

“Don't be condescending,” Ben snaps. “I didn't know Stephen was divorced until tonight.”

“We're colleagues, he's my subordinate. His marital status is of complete disinterest to me.”

“But he is interested in you,” Ben insists.

Gabriella glances at their sleeping children on her phone screen.

“I refuse to argue about this again, Ben. You're driving me up the wall with your jealousy. I can't fire him. He's good at his job. And then you just get upset about someone else anyway.”

Ben is breathless from their quick pace. They're already more than halfway around the block and he doesn't feel any better.

“Just promise me you won't spend any time alone with him.”

“I never have and I never will. There's no reason to. Even if I weren't in a monogamous marriage, he's still my subordinate. I don't know what you want me to do. Our life is paid for with this career that involves late nights, late dinners, and travel.”

Ben wants her to hug him and passionately declare her undying devotion. But that's not her way. They're both silent for the rest of the walk. And Gabriella goes into the house ahead of him without looking back. Her movements and posture seem angry. As if she's the one who has something to be mad about. He knows his constant need for reassurance repels her. But he's sad that she has no desire for reassurance from him.

Is it because his scalp is showing more and more as his hair becomes increasingly thinner? And he's gaining weight? Stephen works out constantly. And looks better bald than he possibly could have when he had hair. And when the mother of another child at Jacob's preschool assumed Ben was single and invited him out for coffee, Gabriella hadn't been bothered at all. It was so annoying.

Inside the house, Gabriella is smiling while typing on her phone. And Ben wants to grab the phone and slam it into the ground. He closes his eyes tightly. Then realizes he's been holding his breath when he has to gasp for air.

“Are you all right?” Gabriella asks.

“Yeah,” he says. Grateful that she looks concerned. And that she has no idea what he was just thinking. He carefully doesn't ask who she's texting. But can't stop staring at the phone in her hand. She glances at him, at her phone, and then raises her eyebrows.

“I'm going to look at all the kids and then take a shower,” she says. Ben nods and forces himself to smile. He's ruining his life and losing her respect. And he's got to get himself under control.

At Sunnyside Bookstore the next afternoon, Jacob runs around the children's section with some other kids. While Ben's friend, Marie Lu, plays peekaboo with Anna, who's strapped to his chest in a front-facing baby carrier.

“I'm ruining my marriage,” Ben says quietly. Marie pauses to look at him.

“Are you still throwing fits about Steven?”

“Yes,” Ben says.

“Well, stop.”

“I can’t.”

“Then you better get help.”

Ben shakes his head. “I don't want to be naive. Mistrust is normal and healthy.”

“Ben, there's mistrust and there's ruining your marriage. You're throwing fits. What does that help? That's obsessive. There's carefulness or whatever you want to call it. And there's paranoia. You are paranoid.”

“Thanks,” Ben says.

“Also, what about Gabriella? She isn't obsessively mistrusting you, yet she's not naive.”

"I'm not a beautiful woman having late dinners and trips to Hawaii with men,” Ben says a bit too loudly.

Marie shakes her head. “Do you really think you're making it less likely she'll have an affair? If someone was constantly accusing me of doing something I wasn't doing, I'd be more likely to do it. Or actually, I'd end the relationship. Get help. Gabriella's amazing. You don't want to lose her through your own behavior.”

Jacob runs up. “Daddy, can I get this book?”

"Oh, I love this one,” Marie says. “We've sold a lot of them. You'll like it, Ben. It's sweet and fits your sense of humor.”

Ben reads the title. “Always in your heart, right? Written by David Majic and illustrated by Lyn-hui Ong. Okay, we'll get it.”

Marie asks Jacob. “Are you coming up with entries for the big competition?”

Sunnyside Bookstore is changing its name. For every $10 donated, anyone can provide a suggestion, with all proceeds to be divided between the village's two non-profit literacy programs. Later will come a winnowing down of choices and then the final voting.

“Jacob's had a few ideas, but he doesn't have $10 to his name.”

“Book builders,” Jacob says before running off.

“Listen to that alliteration,” Ben says proudly.

“Anyway,” Marie says, “back to what we were talking about before. I think you should find a professional to talk to and then tell Gabriella what you're working on. But wait until after you've had the first session and maybe talk to the professional about the best way to bring it up to her. Otherwise, you'll just start whining again and she won't be impressed.”

“ Can't I just talk to you about it?”

“No,”

Ben sighs. “Are we still going on a double date to see the Sybarites next week?”

Marie shrugs. “Four of us will be using the tickets. I can't guarantee if Kyle will be one of them. Stop changing the subject. Are you going to take my advice?”

“I guess so.”

“What was it?”

“What was what?”

“What was my advice?”

“You're like the older sister I never wanted.”

“I'm six years younger than you.”

“You're like the younger sister I never wanted.”

“What was my advice?”

“To find a professional, have a session, tell Gabriella about it, and she'll be so impressed I take action we'll all live happily ever after.”

A week later, after the kids are asleep, Ben asks Gabriella if he can talk to her about something. She's working on her computer and says, “Yes, let me save this.” They sit on the couch more formally than usual, both upright with two feet between them.

“I had a session with Luke Cantrell today,” Ben says. He doesn't know why he feels so nervous.

“You did?” Gabriella asks in surprise.

“Yes, Anna was with the Parkers for a couple of hours. I wanted to work on my jealousy issues.” Gabriella nods and watches him, waiting for more.

“I don't know if it will help, but I felt great after and still do. That feeling of floating is fantastic. Why don't you tell me about that?”

“I didn't have a feeling of floating,” he says.

“What did it feel like for you?”

"Well, like nothing really. I didn't feel anything. It was a great experience though.”

M: So the hypnotic state can really feel different depending on the person and even from session to session. So you might simply feel relaxed, like you're just either lying there or, you know, reclining in the sofa or something like that and listening to your therapist's voice. Or your body might feel pleasantly heavy, like gravity is gently holding you down. And then for some other people, you can feel very light, like Ben, almost like you're floating. So it can be very different from person to person.

K: Oh, yeah. And I've had, I mean, like I've had all those in different sessions and sometimes more than one. Yeah, you haven’t?

M: Oh, not in one session.

K: Well, I mean, that's rare, but I've had a few of those. Yeah, once in one session, but I've had all of them overall, all those things you described. So great descriptions. Yeah, I love the floating one. That's why I brought it up. Oh, yeah. Doesn't always happen, but...

M: Yeah, I don't think I've felt the heavy version. I mean, I can see how that would feel, but I don't think I've had it. But yeah, like Karisha just said, there may be sessions where, you know, you feel one way and then you feel another way. And also, there are times that you go quite deep. And so then when you come out, like later, you realize you don't remember much of what your hypnotherapist said. And then there are other times that, you know, this happens a lot with me, especially in live session, not when I'm listening to the recording, that I hear every word and my thoughts, you know, feels like they're wandering all over the place.

K: So that happens more for you in live?

M: Yeah.

K: Oh, really? I have the opposite. More in recording.

M: Yeah, I think I'm the minority as far as, you know, I've heard people talk about it or my friends talk about it.

K: Me too, it usually seems like the live ones are by far the... Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. So as you can see, everything happens. Anything can happen.

M: Yeah, anything is possible. So in my case, I can go deeper when I'm listening to the session recording. And so all of that is completely normal, because hypnosis itself isn't just one fixed state or experience. So it really varies because, you know, your brainwave keeps shifting, you know, one second to another. And so it also varies from person to person and from day to day. And even from, you know, second to second.

M: And if you missed Gabriella's episode, the date and the title are included in the show notes.

Ben says, “Luke seemed to think jealousy is a pretty common problem. We broke my current obsessiveness down to what happened with Lisa and Greg.”

Lisa was the first woman Ben lived with, and she ended up leaving him for a co-worker. And Greg is a close friend who confided in Ben when his wife had an affair the year before.

“Ah, that makes sense.” Gabriella says, nodding. Ben is relieved. He'd been worried that Gabriella would feel like he was comparing her to Lisa or to Greg's wife.

“Luke asked me how the stuff I've been making up in my head has led me to act around you. So as part of the whole first session thing, in hypnosis, he helped me feel relaxed while thinking of our relationship. It made me realize how tense I've been about it. I'm sorry I've been acting so crazy.”

“Thank you,” Gabriella says.

The next day, Ben feels so much calmer about his marriage that he almost cancels his second session, even though it's a week away. Then he decides he'll work on other things, like worries about his health and his kids and maybe hair loss and weight gain.

Then the night before his session, he's walking by Gabriella's home office and overhears her saying, “You know Tim is the best there is. I'm confident he can handle this account on his own. Yes, I can guarantee that. I'll keep a close eye on him. Sure, Sam, have a good night.”

Ben feels as though his stomach has plunged hundreds of feet into an abyss.

M: So when we talk about feeling emotions in the body, that experience can be very different from person to person. I guess anything is different from person to person. I feel like I keep saying that, you know.

K: I appreciate you pointing that out.

M: So some people genuinely feel things very strongly in their body because their mind and body are very closely linked. So when they have strong emotions, then they also feel it physically somewhere in the body. And you are the one, right? You are that type.

K: That’s me. I can relate to Ben here. Way too much.

M: See, I can understand that in my head, but it doesn't happen that much to me.

K: I’ve always, I sometimes wonder if people hearing or reading that kind of description when they don't experience themselves and they aren't familiar, they don't know that other people experience it. I've often wondered, do they think that's just made up, you know, for the drama? But it's real for some people. Yeah. Yeah.

M: Well, at least I don't think that, you know.

K: You know, because you work with different people.

M: Yeah. Then, of course, you know, there are those who don't really have that physical sensation like me. Even when the emotions themselves are quite intense, it doesn't mean we're not feeling them. I mean, we absolutely are, but we just don't necessarily experience them in the body.

M: It’s simply a matter of the system working differently. So it's not about, you know, right or wrong. It's just a different wiring. And so, again, for me, sometimes I notice on my solar plexus area, like something, but it's usually quite faint. Most of the time, I don't really feel much anywhere.

Ben becomes very hot and then very cold, and a rage starts to rise in him. Then he pauses, breathes deeply, and it subsides a little. He wonders if he’s being paranoid again. But no, no, he's not. Tim is the young guy that Gabriella joked everyone was in a tizzy over when he started last year. Apparently, he looks like a combination of two gorgeous actors, and he was very courteous and soft-spoken besides. Or at least that's what Gabriella reported many of her colleagues as saying. Ben hasn't met or even seen Tim yet.

And now he knows why. Of course, Gabriella's attracted to Tim, the young, never married guy. Not Steven, who has an ex-wife and a complicated child custody agreement. Why would she choose someone in his late 40s with loads of baggage when she can have a young, energetic movie star lookalike who's never even been married? This is why she remained so calm and disinterested when Ben railed on about Steven. Or maybe she was involved with Steven, then lost interest in him when Tim came along. Maybe that's even why Steven's getting divorced. Why has he never thought of this before?

Ben is now leaning against the wall, trying not to slide to the ground. He wants to start yelling and banging his fist against whatever he can reach. But that would be foolish. He'd upset the kids. He might even lose custody of them. Oh, that would be really dumb of Gabriella since she has a free childcare and the most trustworthy one possible, their ever-loving dad, who chose to stay home and raise them is now entirely dependent upon the income from her poisonous career. How could he ever have trusted a scenario analyst in a risk department at a financial services firm? She's cold and controlling, entirely focused on investments and wealth management.

He opens his mouth to say something and then stops. What will happen if he accuses her? The improvements to their relationship will end. But does he want an improvement when she's deceiving him in this way? Wait, what was it Luke said? The stuff he was making up in his head? Is he making this up? How can he know? How can he know?

M: Sometimes after a session, you can feel so much better that it almost feels like the issue is completely resolved. And that's great. But especially with long-standing issues or patterns, it's usually not a one-session thing.

K: Right.

M: Because the roots can be very deep and real rewiring doesn't happen overnight. You know, it's no hypno-miracle. At the same time, if you felt the difference even after just one session, that's quite significant because it means your mind is capable of responding differently. It means change is possible.

M: But then, you know, things can happen in everyday life that trigger the old reaction again. But it doesn't mean the session didn't work. It just takes repetitions for the new pattern to root deeply in your subconscious.

M: So repetition is, you know, even very, or actually even more important with conscious-based therapy. It just works much faster in hypnotherapy. But nonetheless, the repetition is still very important because there's something we call the law of repetition.

M: So especially for long-standing patterns, there are like a fully grown forest in the subconscious. And they've been there for years and sometimes decades. And when we introduce a new suggestion in hypnosis, like dropping messages into your subconscious, it's more like planting a tiny seedling in the middle of this big forest.

M: And it's alive, it's real, but it's very small. And so then, you know, you have to nurture that seedling. Because if you just plant that seedling and walk away, where it's surrounded by all of those old established trees, you know, old patterns, then it's not likely to survive for very long. I mean, probably like max a week or something, or maybe only even a few days. Because it needs sunlight, it needs water, it needs space. And in practical terms, that's the repetition, you know, listening to the session recordings, taking small steps in real life, really reinforcing the new response that the seedling. And so that's how the seedling grows and overpower the forest over time.

K: I love that. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

M: Yeah, I use this metaphor a lot, because I think it kind of illustrates how it works.

K: It does. Yeah.

M: So when an old trigger shows up again, it doesn't mean nothing happened in the session. It just means the old forest is still stronger, you know, and the new pattern is nurturing. And so with the repetition, the seedling grows stronger. And over time, your subconscious landscape really starts to change.

K: Beautiful.

Luke and Ben had talked about the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality as a way to overcome inner insecurity. Luke had clapped his hands together and asked Ben, “what did I just do?”

“You clapped,” Ben said, although that seemed too obvious to be the correct answer.

“How do you know?”

“I saw and heard.”

“So that's something you can know is real, right?” Ben had nodded.

“When you're imagining what Gabriel is thinking or doing, is there any way to know that's real?”

“No,” Ben said.

“It can be helpful to contrast the stories we tell ourselves with things we know are real. Doing a reality check activity, like noticing what your body's touching, butt on chair, feet on ground, clothes against skin, it's helpful to remind yourself of the difference between a fantasy that's not serving you and what you can know is real in that moment.”

After remembering this, Ben decides to go listen to a session recording. He'll text Gabriella from the guest room to let her know what he's doing so she won't interrupt. Then he'll see how he feels after that. Like Luke said, he can always get mad later. He ended up listening to his recording twice because the first time he's so focused on torturing himself with the idea of Gabriella being seduced by a Ryan Gosling lookalike, he doesn't hear a single word.

Although it would be Ryan Gosling 20 years ago before he was with his partner, Ae-vuh Mendez, Ryan and Ae-vuh seem too upstanding to cheat on each other. But wait, Ae-vuh does look a little like Gabriella, which is unfortunate for Ben's state of mind. At this point, the recording comes to an end and Ben realizes he needs to start over. He's exhausting himself with his nonsensical spiraling thoughts.

M: I want to clarify something here. In hypnosis, it's completely normal for your mind to wander. You might be relaxed, you know, listening to the voice and at the same time, notice your thoughts drifting here and there. It can even feel like you're not concentrating properly. That's actually very common and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's different from being so triggered or emotionally activated that you simply can't settle.

M: When your system is in that heightened state, almost it's like running on adrenaline. Your thoughts can race in a way that blocks you from really taking anything in from the recording. In that state, you're not just casually wandering, you're just being overwhelmed. And when that happens, it can feel almost impossible to listen. So yes, mind wandering is normal in hypnosis, but being so upset that you're mentally blocking everything out, that's a different state altogether. And sometimes it just means you need a little more time to calm yourself before the suggestion can really land.

K: Right, so listening a second time or other things you can do is maybe a little physical activity that can help. Or you can try some different things like maybe working out a little bit. That often helps me. Some people, it helps them to like lay down and put their legs up against a wall or something. That can be really calming. Yeah, Any calming thing to do. That's something it is recommended to do after a hard workout actually with deep breathing.

K: Also paying attention to what you might've eaten that day. If you're hungry, you have a little snack. You might have some protein, see what you've eaten a balanced meal that day. Hungry, thirsty, taking care of those kinds of things can help a lot.

M: No sugary carbohydrates.

K: Right, exactly. Oh, and not too much caffeine so you're jittery.

M: Yeah, definitely.

The second time Ben listens to his recording, he pays attention. His mind's still wandering now and then as minds do. But without blocking out what he's hearing, he feels more and more relaxed as it goes on. And by the end, he's relieved he didn't act on his feelings, even though he's still bothered by what he overheard. At a session the next day, Ben tells Luke about how he thought he was doing so well when nothing had happened. But as soon as it did, he lost it.

“In the past, she's told me about how many of her colleagues think this Tim is really good looking. I mean, it was a big deal when he started there. That's how attractive he is.”

“You've told me about how important Gabriella's job is to her, Luke says. Is Tim a subordinate?”

“Yes, but people…”

“I'm sorry to interrupt, Ben, but has Gabriella ever said or done anything that made you think she would have an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate?”

Ben is quiet for a moment. “Uh, I guess not. But okay, no, no, I guess she wouldn't, even if she wanted to.

“Did you write out all the ways your former girlfriend and your friend's wife are different than Gabriella?”

“No,” Ben admits.

“Consider doing that this week. That will make it more concrete for you when you see it in writing. Include how your current relationship is different than those relationships as well.”

“I will,” Ben says. “I just wish I could know for sure.”

“Trust isn't the same as certainty,” Luke says. “No one can prove they're 100% trustworthy, including you, right? Doubts can always be created, not just around any person, but around anything. Like one of my favorite philosophers, David Hume pointed out, even though the sun has risen for billions of years, we can't be certain it will rise tomorrow, right? So why don't you worry about it not rising, assuming that's not what you want to work on next?”

Ben laughs. “Jacob would probably ask excitedly if it's because the sun burnt out or if the earth stopped spinning or what. But going with what you really meant, no, it's not something I worry about.”

“That's as much certainty as anyone can have,” Luke says. “When we're trusting properly, we don't need to be 100% certain. We can't be. When we keep trying for that 100%, we end up torturing ourselves and straining our relationships. One of my colleagues, who's also a friend, once said to me, ‘don't live in the wreckage of the future.’”

“I like that,” Ben says after a moment. “Don't live in the wreckage of the future. I haven't heard that before.”

“Looking at your life without these specific worries, what do you see?” Luke asks.

"Um, happiness? Happiness. It's everything I've ever wanted. I want to live in the happiness of the present. I'd like to be able to do that more. I'm always worrying about something.”

During the next week, Ben finds himself more able to focus on good moments with his children and Gabriella and he feels more relaxed overall. But even though he's worrying less about Gabriella being romantically involved with a colleague, he's sometimes stricken by the thought that if she left him, life would be unbearable. He brings this up to Luke the next time they meet.

“When we really fear something, Luke says, we avoid addressing it fully. So let's try that now. If that did happen, what sort of things would you do to keep going?”

“Oh, wow,” Ben says. “It'd be terrible.”

Luke nods. “What would you still have in your life?”

“Well, my kids, of course. My friends. I have a lot of good friends. My family, Gabriella's family.”

“So a lot of strong relationships,” Luke says. “That's great. Do you have any activities you really enjoy that you do alone or with friends?”

Ben hesitates. “Not really, I guess. I mean, I used to, but I'm so busy with the kids and everything.”

“What did you like to do in the past?” Luke asks.

“Well, I used to love the golf and woodworking, but both those things take so much time. I haven't done either since Jacob was born.”

“What'd you make out of wood?”

“The last thing I made, a cutting board to match my brother's mahogany kitchen. And before that, I chest sat for my dad.”

“So you have pretty advanced skills.”

Ben shrugs. “There's another guy in my neighborhood who does the same sort of thing. He'd come over, we'd chat and work on our projects. I still see him around, but haven't had time to get together.”

“What about other friend time?”

Ben shakes his head. “I don't really have much focused friend time. I often take the kids to the bookstore. My friend Marie's there, so we can chat if she's not busy. She gave me the advice to make an appointment and stop ruining my marriage.”

Luke smiles. “So a very valuable friend. Do you think it's possible for you to do something outside the house just for yourself once a week?”

Ben shrugs again. “Maybe.”

“Start small, perhaps meet someone for coffee for an hour to catch up or see what project your neighbor's working on. And although it would take a bit more time, how about playing nine holes of golf with a buddy now and then? Do you know other golfers?”

“Yeah, there's a group of us that used to get together. Last I heard, they were still meeting up.”

“It's interesting,” Luke says. “But when we expand our lives, we tend to spend less time focusing on what might go wrong. And if you feel better, your whole family will also. What do you think Gabriella will think about this?”

“She has a friend group she lifts weights and rock climbs with, so I'm sure she'll understand,” Ben says.

“Excellent. I'm excited to hear what you'll do first.”

M: So just to briefly review the dynamic here, Ben is very relationship-centered, as you can probably assume. For him, connection and reassurance are very, very important, obviously. So when he doesn't feel that reassurance, it can quickly trigger a fear of rejection.

Relationship-centered people tend to be very sensitive to that sense of rejection. Now, you agree, Karisha?

K: I agree, and I'm one of them.”

M: Yeah, so am I. But I'm low on that spectrum. So that's why in this story, when Gabriella focuses on something else, especially her work, he can experience it as if he's being sort of pushed aside, even if that's not her intention. And when her work involves other men, it seems to really trigger him. Poor Ben. Gabriella, on the other hand, is more mind-centered.

M: So for a mind-centered people, career, you know, independence and a sense of control are often very important. Doesn't mean relationships aren't important. They are, but their priority more often than not goes to work and maintaining structure and autonomy. Their underlying fear tends to be loss of control. And when conflict arises, they're more likely to withdraw and or need space to feel secure, you know, for themselves. Gabriella needs space and time to herself to feel balanced. And in this Luke is encouraging Ben to find space and time for himself, independent of Gabriella, while then allowing her the space she naturally needs.

K: Yeah, that's a great explanation. Oh, and that phrase, don't live in the wreckage of the future that comes from Lois Lohrbach, the hypnotherapist I've mentioned before that has helped me so much.

Two days later, Ben chats with his neighbor and watches him carve a walking stick, and they brainstorm things Ben might make in his spare time. Then that Saturday, after Gabriella gets back from the rock climbing gym, Ben spends four hours on the golf course with his friends. In the evening, the whole family makes cookies.

After two more sessions, Ben is feeling more confident in his relationship and has established his own weekend routine. His life feels a lot more balanced, and he notices he's worrying less about his kids too. After he updates Luke, Ben tells him, “So my hair is thinning, and I've heard that some people have had success with injections of that toxin. I think it's botulinum or something like that. It's whatever's in Botox. They say that we unconsciously tense our scalp muscles, and that stretches the skin and limits the blood flow to the follicles. So, releasing the muscles helps increase the blood flow. I've noticed that I'm always tensing my scalp, but I don't want to get injections. So, do you think we could do hypnosis for relaxing all those muscles, like basically all the muscles all over my scalp, and for increasing the blood flow throughout it into my hair follicles? Do you think promoting that would work?”

Luke nods. “We can definitely promote muscle relaxation and blood flow. Would you like to do that today?

“Yes, please,” Ben says.

“With an unconscious physiological action, you'll need to be consistent in listening to your recordings. I'd also recommend adding some notes and alarms to consciously relax it as well. That will speed things up.” During the hypnosis, Ben feels a tingling in his scalp, and he can also feel pressure releasing there. He hears a kind of crackling sound, although it isn't his ears. He wonders if it might be the muscles around his ears relaxing.

M: This part came from a client and listener who asked us to include it in an episode.

K: Yes, this part and the results are entirely taken from one person's experience.

Ben doesn't write himself notes or set any alarms, but he does listen to his scalp relaxation recording most days, when he doesn't feel like he needs one of the earlier ones instead. He starts to notice more and more when he's tensing muscles in his scalp than more and more when he's not.

A few weeks pass, and there's already far less hair in his brush, and the hair follicles he can see look stronger. After two months, he thinks his hair seems thicker.

“Look at my hair,” he tells Gabriela, not for the first time.

“It looks great,” she says, gently tugging a handful as she walks past.

“Don't pull hair,” Jacob shouts.

“Dada, air,” Anna says.

“Yes,” Ben says approvingly. “Dada is very hairy.”

“But you're not supposed to pull hair,” Jacob insists.

“Moms are allowed to pretend to pull hair because they do it gently,” Gabriella says.

“Can I pretend to pull hair if I do it gently,” Jacob asks.

“No,” Ben and Gabriela say at once, and she adds, “Are you a mom?”

“Can I do it when I'm a mom?”

“Yes. Sure,” Gabriella says, “but not before.”

“When I'm a mom, I'm gonna pull your hair,” Jacob tells Anna. She thrusts a food-covered hand toward him, smiling hugely.

“You still have to do it gently,” Ben says.

“I will,” Jacob yells.

“Okay, I'm off to the golf course,” Ben says.

“Can I learn to golf?”, Jacob asks.

“Sure,” Ben says. “My dad taught me when I was about eight, so maybe in four years.”

“I want to be eight and a mom,” Jacob says.

“When I get back, remember what we're gonna have?”

“Pizza!”

M: So cute. I love that conversation. So it's really great that, you know, hypnosis really worked in terms of hair loss or hair regrowing. I just want to clarify that, you know, this doesn't mean hypnotherapy is a guaranteed solution for hair thinning or hair loss.

M: There are many different reasons people lose hair. Reduced circulation can certainly play a role, and stress can also affect the body in ways that influence hair growth. Because hypnosis promotes relaxation and shifts the body into more relaxed parasympathetic state, it may support those particular factors.

M: But as far as my understanding goes, hair loss can also be influenced by other issues like genetics, hormonal changes, nutritional deficiencies, and other stuff. And so hypnosis is not a promised cure for hair loss. I mean, you know, hypnosis doesn't cure anything anyway.

But it may help address certain contributing factors like, you know, stress and muscle tension. And obviously, that really worked well with this, you know, person.

K: Yeah, I'm really glad you explained all that. That was really great.

M: Thank you for joining us in Sunnyside.

K: If you enjoyed your time with us, please share this episode with a friend.

M: Thank you to High Street Jack for our theme song.

K: And thank you Makiko for managing the post-production work and our website.

M: And thank you, Karisha, for writing such great stories that gets better and better.