Rays of Light Podcast

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Hi Karisha!

Welcome to Rays of Light and the Fictional Village of Sunnyside.

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Caleb glares at the other students sitting around the large oval library table. None of them are prepared. Not a single one of them has even read the instructions he sent.

“This is one of the most prestigious MBA programs in the country,” he says sternly.

“How did any of you get in?” One of the students laughs. Two look stricken. And the fourth says, “This project isn't due for over two months. We're still in the planning stages.”

“We wouldn't be if you'd read the instructions I spent hours preparing.” Caleb replies, “I was trying to make it easy for you.”

“Okay, okay, I'll read them now.” The student who laughed earlier says good naturedly, opening his laptop. “When did you send it?”

Through gritted teeth, Caleb says, “On the 12th.”

“Ah, here it is. You sent this three days after we got the assignment.”

“You didn't even open the message?”

“I have over 200 unopened messages in this account alone.”

“I see.” Caleb turns to the other students who are now peering at their own laptops intently. “Perhaps it would be helpful if we had a weekly call along with our bi weekly meetings.”

“I don't have time for that.”

“Me neither.” Caleb sighs.

“This looks great.” The cheerful student says, “And I've now marked your messages as important.”

“So should we each choose a section and have it completed by next meeting?” Another asks. Caleb stops himself from sighing again and nods instead.

After choosing their sections, the rest of the group leaves quickly. And Caleb wonders what could conceivably have been accomplished if he hadn't done so much preparation in advance. They're still far behind where he expected they would be at this point. But nothing would have happened if he hadn't been here.

Back at the apartment, Natalie, who's been Caleb's roommate since law school, is making a large salad with a pile of partially wilted vegetables.

“You have to eat half of this,” she says fiercely.

“We swore we wouldn't let everything go bad again and just look.”

“Is it even healthy at this point?” Caleb asks.

"It will teach us a lesson.”

“Will it though?”

“Had better. We're almost 30. We need to act like it.”

“I wish you'd stop saying we're almost 30. I'm a brand new 29.”

“And I'm an ancient 27,” she says. “I'm going to toss this with a simple healthy dressing made from olive oil, cayenne pepper…”

“That will help disguise the putrefaction.” Caleb interrupts cheerily.

“As will our ancient croutons. But they last forever. We have the really garlicky ones.”

“Great,” Caleb says. “The garlic and cayenne pepper will keep us alive.”

“How was your group meeting?” Natalie asks. “Had anyone read your email message?”

“None of them even noticed I sent one.”

Natalie groans.

“We ended up making a little progress though, I hope. I don't get these people. They all have career experience supposedly, but they seem very immature and unfocused.”

“Well, you've already been through a graduate program and most of them probably haven’t," Natalie says.

Caleb finished law school, passed the bar, and worked as a corporate attorney for two years before starting on his MBA. Natalie continues. “All of your accomplishments have surely made you far more unknowing than anyone else in your program.” Caleb doesn't say aloud that he was only third in his law class rather than first, and he wasn't tired at his dream firm, as those are complaints Natalie no longer allows in her presence.

“How's your trial prep going?” He asks instead.

"Oh, as expected. I'm working tonight, if we survive this meal. Oh, and I have someone to hit you up with if you're interested. I've been chatting with her after Pilates class and I think you'd get along.”

“You're always so upset with me when things go awry,” Caleb says, scooping some of the oily vegetables onto his plate and pouring a lot of croutons on top of them. He takes a bite while Natalie watches with wide eyes. After crunching for a long time, he nods.

“Not bad, you disguised the rot perfectly.”

“That's my area of expertise,” she says. “I promise I won't be upset. We're not close friends or anything. She wants to date more. You want to date more.”

“Wait,” Caleb says. “Is that the only reason you think we'll get along?” Natalie makes faces at him while she chews.

“Forget it,” Caleb says. “You are inventing another reason right now and I don't want to hear it. I'll meet her if she's easy to schedule with.”

“Ah, you are so romantic,” Natalie says. “You know, you should attend our Pilates class. That way you can meet her in a more natural setting.”

“Absolutely not.”

“You’d love Pilates. It'll help you with your fitness goals. It's all about core strength and balance. I can't believe I never thought of this before. It'll make the first meeting so much less stressful.”

“No,” Caleb says firmly. The very idea of attending a class for something he has no experience with is repulsive and it's only worse with the addition of a woman he might want to go out with.

Over the next week, Caleb continues to think about Natalie's idea. One day when she's not home, he finds a Pilates video online and follows along with a mat workout in place of his regular routine. He's not at all good at it and finds it exhausting, but he continues to do it every day and he feels like he's improving as the movement starts to feel more familiar and smoother. He's convinced he's getting better. He has decided to attend the class already an expert.

Three months pass and he's moved on to an advanced Pilates routine video while also studying up on how to use the equipment. Natalie's trial is about to begin. When it does, she'll basically disappear until it's over. He knows she won't be attending her Pilates class during that time as she'll barely even sleep.

“Can I go to Pilates with you before the trial begins?” He asks her one night as they sit on the couch watching a movie they've both seen many times before.

“What?” Natalie looks at him in surprise.

“I'm ready to try the class and meet your friend.”

“Caleb, why did you wait so long? She's seeing someone now and it's serious. I'm sorry, but it's not like you can't still attend. You were so adamant. What Changed your mind?” Caleb stares at the floor then admits,

“I wanted to get the hang of it first.”

“What?”

“I've been doing Pilates videos so I wouldn't make a fool of myself.”

“Oh, Caleb, the whole point… Never mind. Well, have you enjoyed it?”

“Not really.”

She laughs then says, “You do see how needing to be an expert at everything before you try it is stopping you from having relationships, right? That's something you can't practice without another human involved.” Caleb glares at her.

“I do know that, but I can't make myself do it. I mean, I can't just do things badly.”

Natalie laughs again. “I know, sweetie.” She smiles at him.

“By the way, Pilates doesn't really work the way you think. You can't tell if you're actually engaging the right inner muscles just by watching a video. We can't feel those like outer muscles. Improvement in the deeper muscles really only occurs with the assistance of a trained instructor, especially at the beginning.”

“Oh,” Caleb says. Natalie continues.

"I just wish you had someone else in your life, especially when I have a trial. And whenever it ends, I'm going on a trip for a week. So unless you want to come along…,”

“Isn't that the trip you are taking secretly with your colleague?”

"Well, it's not secret from you.”

“You mean you're not really inviting me?”

“No, I'm not. And you wouldn't go anyway because there will be snorkeling and you'd have to complete a full scuba diving certification before you could bear to go near the water.”

“Snorkeling and scuba diving are completely different.” Caleb says stiffly.

“I know, babe. I'm making a point. About you.”

“And I get it, he admits, even though it's ridiculously exaggerated.”

“Is it, though?”

“I can't change how I am. I've been trying for years. Ever since you told me I was ruining my life because I came in third, you promised never to mention that in my presence again.”

“Listen, why don't you see a therapist?”

"I did, remember? And it was really helpful. I feel much better about the things I can no longer mention in your presence. But he couldn't help with this. He wanted me to deliberately do things imperfectly to get past my anxiety about it. And I tried and it was unbearable. And him saying it wasn't unbearable because I survived was not helpful.”

“Oh,” Natalie says, “I didn't know why you'd stopped going. Well, I see how that might be good advice for some people, but not you. Why didn't you just tell him you couldn't do it?”

"I did, but he wouldn't stop talking about it, said it wouldn't kill me. I felt pressured and annoyed when I had to tell him once again that I hadn't tried that week or had barely tried and had to ruin the rest of my day.”

“Oh…, I have another idea. Hypnosis. One of my colleagues used it for the craziest reason, but it worked. She mispronounced a client's name and it made her so nervous she wasn't able to say it correctly until she had a couple of sessions. I know that's niche, but she's since used it for a lot of other things. I can ask her more if you want.”

"I don't know,” Caleb says. “I don't want anyone controlling me.”

“That's what we all told her. She assured us she's completely controlled the whole time. I'll text her to find out who she worked with. Any other questions for me to ask?”

“Find out if they make you do things like a stage hypnotist does.”

“Someone in the office asked about that. She said a hypnotherapist wouldn't do that. They're focused on therapeutic techniques and stage hypnotists, she said, choose people who love attention and are unusually suggestible. So they're volunteering to participate. Oh, here we go. She already responded. I knew she was lying about staying off her phone on weekends. Ha! Okay, I sent you the info.”

“Thanks. I'll do some research on hypnotherapy and think about it.”

“How about you become an expert on the subject after you schedule a session?”

“If I could do that,” Caleb says, “I would need a session, would I?”

A week into her trial, Natalie texts Caleb to say she'll go to dinner with him after his first hypnotherapy session, which convinces him to schedule a consultation call. When he bargains for her to get a full night's sleep in her own bed following the dinner, she replies, “Look at us trying to help each other. Aren't we adorable?” Caleb can tell the trial is going very well.

During the consultation call, Caleb asks hypnotherapist Reina Ibarra the same questions he asked Natalie, and he gets similar answers. He also learns about how the first session is a bit different than other sessions, as they spend time figuring out his specific suggestibility so he can receive suggestions in the most effective way possible. It also involves taking more time to get him really deeply into hypnosis, making it a quicker process for future sessions.

K: So when we talk about suggestibility, which we've discussed a bit in other sessions, but I don't know how long it's been. We basically mean how a person takes in information.

M: You mean in other episodes!

K: So when we talk about suggestibility, we're basically talking about how a person takes in information. So it's kind of like a roadway or a pathway to how a person's learned a behavior or whatever element or thing it is that we're helping them change. So like many things, it's a spectrum. So there's a lot of variation. At the most basic level, there's people who are more likely to accept literal statements and those who are more likely to take in inferences.

M: Yeah, just to give an example, when someone gives you a compliment, “Oh, you look nice today,” the literal person would say, “Oh, thanks.”

K: Yeah, they feel good about it.

M: Yeah. The person who takes in the inference might think, “Oh, you mean, I looked badly yesterday?” So people who take in inferences tend to sort of read between the lines.

K: So of course, we all take in inferences sometimes, and we all can handle direct information sometimes, I think, especially in, like in the United States at work, things tend to be direct. So you know, people that take in inferences learn how to deal with that. Sometimes I become very literal.

M: You ARE literal.

K: Yeah, I am literal. But I know that that's not the only way to take in information to communicate. But sometimes I noticed myself just really taking it in very literally, which you know, like you said, is it's maybe great when we're getting compliments. But sometimes we're missing stuff, because not everyone communicates literally, you know, if people are in inferences, I often will miss things. So if people are communicating in inferences, then the more little person might miss things. So that's the other side of it.

M: Yeah. And also, it depends on the culture to English is more literal language. And Japanese, for example, it's very, very inferential. But it's really interesting, because I'm more literal. And I thought that I would take a lot of inference because of my mother tongue being Japanese. But now I find myself very literal.

K: Really?

M: Yeah. Now that I really think about, oh, this is literal. Oh this is inferential. I noticed that, oh, I'm really not good at, like, getting the inference, I really have to think about it. So it's really quite interesting.

K: So yeah, you'll start to notice some patterns, if you pay attention to this, when you're communicating with people. And also, if you pay attention to how people maybe take in compliments, like you said, so if you say to someone that is highly inferential, you say, wow, you did a good job. That's great, whatever, they're probably not taking that in at all. But you'll notice if you make it more inferential, they're more likely to accept the compliment.

K: So that's something to consider when you're communicating with people. Sometimes it's really hard for me to, in English, write something inferential that doesn't seem very awkward. But when I do, even though it seems awkward to me, and this is I'm talking about texting. It goes over better, like I get a better response. So it's really it's really interesting. Maybe at some point, or maybe we'll do a little episode or something where we can give some examples for people at some point.

M: Yeah, that'd be good.

Caleb's scheduled sooner than he would have otherwise, just to see Natalie, who has only been coming home for two or three hours a day, usually when he's asleep or gone. During his first session, Caleb talks about wanting to feel less anxious. He takes a long time to enter the hypnotic state. And when he does, he goes deeper into a sense of calm than he can ever remember experiencing before.

K: Some people resist going into hypnosis the first time. And this can be conscious or unconscious resistance. It's usually connected to a fear of losing control, which Caleb already knows he already expressed he had this after the first time when they realized they didn't lose control, but instead felt very calm. They love it.

M: Yeah, that's true. And the thing is, the subconscious doesn't like the unknown, anything new is uncharted territory. And the subconscious treats uncharted as risky, you know, because its objective is to protect yourself. And so unknown is a risk, deemed risk. And that's why we feel nervous trying something unfamiliar, or totally new.

M: But it's not every little new thing, you know, like trying on a new dress, we don't really get nervous, right. But when something feels like it's at stake, or when there's something to lose, like, you know, losing control for some people like Caleb, that's when the subconscious starts sending up warning signals. And that's the anxiety, the nervousness. And for a lot of people, hypnosis is like, totally unknown. And it feels like losing control from what you've heard in the media, and so forth. And so often, we do see that more subconscious resistance, probably, because if they are coming to a session, then they are willing to try it. But you know, subconscious is sort of not quite ready, maybe.

K: Right, because they'll have been reassured, like Caleb was from Natalie's coworker, but also the hypnotherapist will always cover that at the beginning of the first session. And she did it in the consultation call to the ask questions. But it doesn't matter because we still have that fear. So often people that have this fear of losing control, when they allow themselves to go into hypnosis, they will feel even more calm, because the contrast between how they felt before and after. So that's why it can be an even more powerful experience for them.

At his second session, a week later, after Caleb says he doesn't want to be a perfectionist anymore. Reina asks him, “What does that mean to you?”

“I guess, not avoiding doing things if I'm not already an expert at them and not feeling like I'm not good enough if I'm not perfect.”

“How might you define perfect?”

Caleb thinks for a few moments, “Without error or fault.” And who or what determines “What's perfect?” Caleb sighs. “Good question.”

“On a deep level, you're probably already aware that in order for there to be perfection, there would have to be a universal standard. But there isn't. Who or what would determine what was perfect?”

“Me.” Caleb jokes. “And I'm hard taskmaster. But I get what you're saying. It's not quantifiable.”

"Right. Is there perfection?”

“Well, no.”

“Then how might you describe the expectations you have for yourself to be perfect?” “Impossible to meet. But I can't just stop trying.”

"What do you think about imagining being able to function with integrity, care, and precision without trying to control the output? Integrity is managing the discernment and the excellence going in.” Caleb nods. And Reina continues. “Instead of telling yourself that you need to be perfect, what might you say instead?” There's a long silence. And then Caleb shakes his head.

“I don't know.”

“If you knew, what would the answer be?” After a pause, Caleb says, “Maybe doing my best or moving toward my goals.”

“So what if you said to yourself something like, as long as I'm moving toward my goals, I'm doing my best.”

Caleb nods slowly. “Yeah. Or maybe it's good enough if I'm moving in the right direction.”

K: Here, Reina is asking questions to find out which words and phrases resonate with Caleb, as nothing anyone else comes up with will be accepted as readily by his subconscious.

M: Right. Because we are all most suggestible to ourselves, to our own words. And so that's why Reina is getting him to use his own words to explain what he wants so that it can be suggested in the hypnosis part.

Reina says, “I like that. Good enough is where the flexibility is. What are some ways you're moving in the right direction?” After a moment of silence, Caleb says,

“I'm getting my MBA and I'm learning a lot in the program. I think I can do something interesting with this and my law degree.”

“Excellent.”

“And I've done a lot of Pilates.” Reina smiles.

“A strong core is the basis for everything.” At Caleb's nod, she continues.

“In the same way, after you build a strong emotional foundation, you might easily begin noticing your value and worthiness. You probably already know that when you feel better about yourself, it won't matter as much what someone else feels. The more you build a strong foundation that blocks you from negatives, including from yourself, while allowing all the positives in, the more you can make the changes you want and for them to be permanent.” At Caleb's nod, she asks, “Shall we work on that in hypnosis today?”

K: So perfectionism is a serious problem because it involves impossible expectations, and that can cut off our ability to grow and change. Procrastination can come out of it. It really just sets us up to experience more frustration, disappointment, anxiety, more than necessary. And those who are aiming for perfection often expect it of others and of events also, which can make them demanding and difficult.

M: Yeah, most definitely. And it may also have to do with fear of failure. Of course, this depends on the person. Either it goes to the fear of success or fear of failure. But the thing is, people always try to avoid their fear, moving away from it. So if the person has a fear of failure, then it really feels like a serious threat. And so the subconscious pushes harder not to fail. So work more, prepare more, check more. And so perfectionists and or overachievers can have a fear of failure working very hard underneath.

After two more sessions, Caleb decides he wants to invite a woman in one of his classes to dinner. He's not nervous about asking her out. She's smiled back at him a couple of times. But the idea that he'll be responsible for the event brings up his anxiety. Caleb tells Reina at his next session.

“I hate saying I want it to be perfect. But if I ask someone out, I want it to at least be amazing.”

“Then what will you do on the second date?” Reina asks. Caleb stares at her puzzled.

“If the first date's amazing, are you going to expect her to plan something just as great to follow it? Or do you expect yourself to surpass the first?”

“Oh, I see what you mean. So what do I do?”

“Well, do you want her input on where you'll eat?” Caleb says “No,” then smiles.

“Okay, sure. So we discuss where we eat, and then I make a reservation if necessary, and the food, decor, or ambience are all up to the restaurant. I just try to look my best and make conversation.”

“How do you feel about those two tasks?” Caleb moves his head around as if he's thinking about it.

“Fine, if something goes awry with my appearance or the conversation, I may get overly upset and spend hours reviewing it later, but I don't feel especially worried about that now.”

“How do you feel about letting the restaurant do its thing without worrying about having the best table or server or food? You might decide on a place that's not your top choice or where they're having an off night in the kitchen.”

“Why are you bringing those things up?” He asks in mock horror.

“You know you'd have thought of them in a moment if you hadn't already.” Caleb laughs.

They end up desensitizing him to the things outside his control that might go wrong at a restaurant, and the next day, he talks to his classmate, who says she's married. This is disappointing, but a few days later, he asks out Angelina, one of the members of his group project, even though she continues to be less than enthusiastic about his urgent instructions. Unlike some of the other group members, she does at least accomplish what she agrees to accomplish, albeit after arguing with his carefully created plans. At his invitation, Angelina looks very surprised but says yes.

At length, they agree on a place to eat in three days. Caleb finds himself looking forward to arguing with her over dinner, and he isn't too concerned about what the food or service might be like. He realizes that Reina's gentle suggestion that his date have input into the eatery was useful. In the past, he would have been too worried about choosing the perfect place to have thought to ask.

The night of the date, Caleb's hair looks fine, but he has a stain on intended to wear, which reminds him of times when he considered giving up on an entire plan because one thing went wrong. This evening, he calmly chooses another shirt and proceeds to the restaurant, thinking more about how much Angelina argues with him than about how things might go awry.

Angelina is eight minutes late, which is stressful and annoying, but she apologizes profusely and explains that she got lost, even though she left early since she often gets lost. Caleb doesn’t understand how someone can get lost with all of the technology available. Instead of telling her this, he shrugs it off.

Over dinner, he finds himself laughing at Angelina’s stories about her siblings, and even though the food isn’t that great, and their table is next to an annoyingly boisterous group, he's having a good time.

“You know,” Angelina says, after they decide to share a dessert,

“A couple of months ago, I could never have imagined us hanging out by choice, but you’ve really loosened up. I’ve even started to look forward to our project meetings.” Caleb smiles shyly.

“Well, I’ve been working on myself, trying to enjoy life more.” Angelina holds up her glass, and as he taps his against it, says

“To enjoyment!”

Thank you so much for joining us in Sunnyside!

We’d like to thank High Street Jack for providing our theme song.

As an independent podcast with a team of two, 5-star ratings and glowing reviews help us reach more listeners, so if you like our show, please rate and review us.

Thank you, Karisha, for writing our stories.

And I’d like to thank Makiko for being in charge of process management and post-production, as well as for creating and maintaining our website!